FB: Do you want to give us a little bit about your career with Ruby Newman? And working your way up, we're back tracking a little bit here because the pops came much later. BW: Yeah the pops started in 1980. FB: But this was when you were 16, 17 again, but that whole thing about playing in the society orchestras... BW: Yeah the whole idea of the society orchestra was that the contractor or the booker, would have a whole list of players. He'd have lets say, five or ten piano players, maybe even more. He'd have so many drummers, so many bass players and I remember going up to Billy Croner's office who was what we would call a chicken fat conductor, a lot of Jewish weddings and bat mitzvahs. That was a very big group of work. It would be possible in a weekend for people to have a wedding on Saturday afternoon, Saturday night, Sunday afternoon, Sunday night, that was very possible. That was quite lucritive. With that and one more date in the middle of the week, even without it, you could support yourself with that kind of... And we weren't making a lot of money, it wasn't a lot of money. I think what we made is I'd say 10, 11, or 12 dollars a night. In 1956 we raised that Saturday night from 12 dollars to 15 dollars, Saturday night. So it's not that it was a lot of money, but the commensorate prices between what you made and what it cost to live, was much closer to what you made then nowadays. It's gotten way out of hand. So they would have a list. When I started, I was only 16 or 17, but because I knew so many tunes, and I was a pretty good player even at that time, I immediatley shot up to be maybe fifth or sixth on their list. And then I moved up even further. FB: Some of the other guys you mentioned were Leo Grimes and Milton Brody and George Gould. BW: Yes. George Gould was the first pianist with the Newman office. Milton Brody was the first pianist with Billy Croner. I became eventually like second or third and that was really a big jump. It could be because, not because I was necessarily better than other players, but another player would leave maybe to go with another contractor and so therefore I would move up. FB: But these were measurable skills, I mean you had a batting average because you knew 1,200 songs and the other guy only maybe knew half that. BW: Exactly. They knew that whatever they called, you could play. FB: That was your resume. BW: That's right, whatever they called. And, if there came a tune that you couldn't, you would learn it either on the spot or for the next day. You would try to play it and if it didn't work out, you'd make sure that that tune, if there were a couple of chords you didn't know, you'd make sure that you learned that tune for the next day in case you were called. So that was the way that this was done.