FB: so um.. lets .... lets ..track your move from Arizona to New York.- AC: Yeah .. um... well it was from Arizona, to Boston- then New York, and then back to Boston.- so I applied to a bunch of Graduate schools, I briefly went to Philidelphia, for University of Pennsylvania, I did not like it - left, went back to Arizona, - did the duo thing with Louis, I realized the pen - was .. . I was gonna be a musicolgy major.- Doctoral,- Masters and Doctoral Ivy league program, - they had a silent music, - building, there was no music in the music building,- it was very strange. - FB: eww... AC: I don't wanna be too harsh here, but I didn't do the homework, - I didn't understand what and Ivy league school's musicology really was,- what a bibliography course was,- you know .. what the course load ,- it just wasn't a good fit for me, and I didn't wanna go that direction- I would have been happier, probably if I'd gone into an ethno musicology program at UCLA- but I didn't know about it..- I was sort of fuddled by my professors into this direction cause I was good at the academics and basically they said.. Oh go get a PHD at a top school- so I applied to princton, and the University of Chicago, and I got into to Penn with a full ride, and I thought I would enjoy that, but I left after a month, - um... I hated it .- and a h.. so I looked for a Jazz Program, to get a masters in Jazz, and I applied to NEC and Eastman, Miami, and I ended up at NEC, for a year,- and ah .. so that's when I moved to Boston- summer of 1980, um... couple of friends from Arizona moved around the same time.- Victor Mendoza, who teaches vibraphone here FB: surely AC: I knew him in Pheonix.-He had gone to college in Flagstaf Arizona, - A very good Mallet Player, -taught there- and ah .. Tim Ray, came shortly after, FB: terrific AC: he was like a child prodigy and was playing jazz gigs when he was like in High School, -younger than me, -but came here within a year or so.- so I knew some people here- a few others, and ah..but it was really the opposite corner of the country, if my family wasn't from New York and New England, I might have felt stranger about it, - very few people I knew from there came this far, most of them went to L.A. and San Francisco, Portland Oregon, ah .very few Arizonans went to the East Coast, - but Lewis Nash of course, moved to New York with Betty Carter, about a year after I left Arizona, he came to New York so I would keep in touch with him, um.. that was .. you know .. it was great to know somebody who was really on the steep curve of the Jazz Career, he was the one person I grew up with that was really making it in the Jazz World, you know.- in a way- so I got to be on the sidelines of that a lot and see that world. of a top young New York drummer.-you know FB: yeah AC: getting those opportunities, I think he was as startled by it as I was, -it was just a phone call, - from Betty Carter, - send me a tape, - okay, I like the tape, come to New York, what kind of suits do you have?- Let's get to work... FB: yeah-she was always cutting edge, and she taught the bands a lot of music- AC: yeah she was a super,ah strict and intense band leader and teacher, - and ah .. great band,- it was just a fantastic, band with Curtis Lundey, and Lewis Nash for years, -he with her for quite a while, so that was part of my Jazz education,- somewhat vicariously, -but I saw them a lot, so I went to NEC for a year, I - was not into borrowing money to college, -I was from a family where nobody did that, - we went to state universities, and G.I. bill, and I decided I couldn't keep paying bills for that kind of tuition, and there were,-Scholarships were not being offered, anything like a sufficient amount, and I didn't have the money ... and I didn't even,- I didn't even think about borrowing, -I shouldn't say this ... to you..- actually it was somewhat foolish, in a way,- I was penny wise and pound foolish. -you know- I shouldn've gotten the master's degree, and gotten it done, I postponed it for a long time, -but you know one of my professors, at ah .- NEC Pat Holenbeck, who arranges for the Boston Pops, is now president of the Boston Musicians union, brother of, older brother of John Holenbeck, the Jazz Composer, and drummer, FB: mmhmm.. AC: Pat is a percussionist, and a great arranger and orchestrator, I studied arranging with him, and I was in his big band at NEC, and ah,he said, you could teach this stuff, you know- I had a composition degree, I was um.. I was way ahead of some of the students- not all of them, in orcestration, and arranging and knowledge of harmony, -I wasn't -there were plenty of players who were ....you know, definitely keeping me on my toes at NEC, but as a theory oriented writer, I knew a lot of stuff,- and he said well you know know, this.- like a sax solo, you can, write a chart,- you should teach this at Berklee, and I said, oh noI'm 25 years old, - I could..never.. they wouldn't hire me, -0he said I'll reccomend you, so I said, -I applied, got interviews with Alex Gilinovsky, and Ted Pease, who became my mentor, so when I hired, and how to teach, and understand the Berklee System- and I was one of the last people hired in 1981, - I mean I got the job in August, I knew I was being considered maybe, in July but it was dependant on enrollement, 15th or something , that I knew that I was gonna be a college teacher, with 23 hours, a week of classroom, lecture, contact teaching, -for 8$ an hour, ah, which was more than I was making in my day job at the time, at BU, I was working in an office, running a little magazine, - it was a secratarial job sort of, -and ah, playing gigs, so that's how I ended up here.